One literary time period we have not touched on in class is Postmodernism.
Anne Sexton and Sylvia Plath were two famous poets prominent during this literary time period. Read Anne Sexton’s poem “Her Kind” and Sylvia Plath’s poem “I am Vertical”. What similarities do you see in their writing? Consider content, themes, style, structure etc.
Also consider reading “Sylvia’s Death” by Anne Sexton and skim through more poems by Sylvia Plath.
Below are some articles and information on the two women that you may find interesting. Peruse through them to learn a little more about their lives. Happy blogging!
Mrs. Loux's English Class 
In Anne Sexton’s poem and in Sylvia Plath’s poem I notice that they are both defining themselves in a negative way. For example in Anne Sexton’s poem, “Her Kind” she describes her actions in each stanza and then at the end of the stanza she mentions how that kind of woman is perceived in the eyes of society. It kind of reminds me of that song “I am every woman” except in the poem she isn’t showing pride towards those actions that in a way define her and define how society will see her. So based on the description in the first two stanzas it sounds like she saying she has been wicked, which makes me think she was going againest what society thought a woman should be like since woman I believe were seen as more moderate, and she has isolated herself, leading to her being an outcast. In the last stanza it seems like she’s saying she is also brave againest death or it may be hinting at how sucidal she was. Sylvia Plath was also sucicidal, and it kind of shows in her “I am Vertical” poem. Just like Sexton she is defining herself in a negative way. She compares herself to nature and says she isn’t receiving “minerals or motherly love.” Also, she says she doesn’t have the “beauty of a garden bed” that inspires a share of “ahs.” The last stanza she also makes it seem like nature doesn’t even notice her because she doesn’t have their qualites like beauty. She sounds insecure and seems to lack self-confidence. The very first line indicating that she would rather be horizontal makes me think she rather be in coffin than being alive because then she feels closer to the sky and feels more useful in the ground. Both poets share an idea on death in their poems.
I definitely agree with you when you said that the Plath poem made you think that she lacked self confidence and she seemed insecure. I think her writing really gave readers insight into what was going on in her life, and clearly she had many dark issues that were taking a toll on her. I think both poets use negativity to sort of “hide” how they really feel about their lives. It makes it seem like being women during this time was hard, maybe because of the lack of true equality?
Yeah I kind of wonder myself what drove these women to feel so tortured with life to have the need to find happiness through suicide. Was it something going on during the time period or was it individual distress that became well-known through their poetry? I read that Plath suffered from a bipolar disorder known as manic depression. This caused her to either feel very happy or very distressed, and there were no effective medications for this disorder during her time. I know Modernism was a period where many people became disillusioned about society and life, and Postmodernism probably continued this cultural trend.
These poems were quite interesting to read. Both “Her Kind” and “I Am Vertical” are describing the hardships that the authors had to endure during their lives. They both touch on themes like isolation and disillusionment, common characteristics in the postmodernism time period. “Her Kind” was more about a woman explaining how she felt abnormal in her actions, and she compares herself to a “possessed witch, haunting the black air”. This Sexton poem is her remembering the lonely life she lived where no one really ever understood her. “I am Vertical” is about a woman who also feels like she is not good enough, and the author explains how she wishes to have the beauty of a garden and the longevity of a tree. She imagines the happiness she would finding in being immortal as the trees and gardens seem to be, and her tone seems very somber as she says the only way she will reach this happiness is when she has finally laid down (to die). These poems both portray life in a sort of whimsical and surreal way, as if trying to comprehend the hardships that they have gone through. I thought the Plath poem was a very strong piece, as it depicted what she actually went through in life. This poem hints at suicide, which Sylvia Plath actually tried to do many times before she finally took her life at 31. Her poems are extremely grave and filled with sadness because of what she went through and I think she used poetry as a way to escape from her reality. The poem “Sylvia’s Death” was also very emotional for me to read because it the author was mourning the death of her dear friend, but also envying her for taking her life when Sexton herself wanted to do the same thing. She thought that the two of them would be strong for each other and continue to live their lives, but Plath gave into death, which Sexton writes about in this deep poem. The postmodernism era seems to be a very interesting period where poets began to question the meaning of life and wondered about what happened when death finally came.
I agreed with almost everything you said Ashini, except I don’t think poetry was an “escape” for Sylvia Plath; she was foreshadowing. I think her poetry was about two things: 1) She was creating the illusion that death would be a better place for her, using phrases like “It is more natural to me, lying down. Then the sky and I are in open conversation” make death seem pleasant and freeing (because she was ill). Death surrounded Plath throughout her life, and maybe she thought she could be reunited with the people she cared for by ending her life. 2) Her poetry was a cry for help. Wanting to kill yourself at such a young age is terrifying, because there is so much to live for. Plath’s depression kept her from doing so, and while she found love, had children, and worked side by side with a friend she couldn’t find happiness.
Her poetry was a Good-Bye essentially; a publicized farewell/wish.
I understand why you think that her poetry was a “cry for help” being that most of her poetry was very dark and it revealed what was going on in her life. However, at the same time I disagree. In her poem “Mad Girl’s Love Song”, Plath depicts the speaker as someone who is coming to terms with the fantasy of a man that she created. This poem gives no hints to the reader that the author was suicidal and wanting help. What it does show though is the fact that Plath was struggling with mental illness. The confusion between fantasy and reality that the speaker experiences is similar to how someone with a mental illness gets confused between the truth and an altered reality due to the illness. I would alter your last statement to say that “Her poetry was a declaration of the instability in her life that showed how her life tipped between sanity and crazy, reality and fantasy, and life and death.”
I agreed with almost everything you said Ashini, except I don’t think poetry was an “escape” for Sylvia Plath; she was foreshadowing. I think her poetry was about two things: 1) She was creating the illusion that death would be a better place for her, using phrases like “It is more natural to me, lying down. Then the sky and I are in open conversation” make death seem pleasant and freeing (because she was ill). Death surrounded Plath throughout her life, and maybe she thought she could be reunited with the people she cared for by ending her life. 2) Her poetry was a cry for help. Wanting to kill yourself at such a young age is terrifying, because there is so much to live for. Plath’s depression kept her from doing so, and while she found love, had children, and worked side by side with a friend she couldn’t find happiness.
Sorry about this my computer was freaking out and didn’t let me finish that is why there are two responses that are basically the same. The first one is the one that I wanted to submit.
I definitely felt the same way regarding Sexton’s poem, “Sylvia’s Death.” It was interesting for me to see how poets during this time were often friends with each other and often influenced each others’ mindsets and writings. This is become especially clear in this poem because here Sexton is not only lamenting her friend’s death, but is also, as you mentioned, envying her for finally escaping life through death. Sexton is obviously deeply saddened by her friend’s death as apparent in the line: “I know at the news of your death / a terrible taste for it, like salt” that alludes to the tears Sexton shed when she found out Plath committed suicide. However, she also calls Plath a “Thief” for taking the easy way out when they had both talked about staying strong for each other. I think this poem really illustrates how troubled both of the women were in this time period.
The themes of death/suicide make me wonder what was happening during that time that made both of these women want to kill themselves.
Plath and Sexton were confessional poets so the theme of death itself in their poetry isn’t surprising; they were “confessing” their personal truths (a theme of postmodernism) that they wanted to die.
I agree that “Sylvia’s Death” was quite saddening, especially because of how she kept repeating Sylvia’s name or calling her some sort of nickname, almost like she was calling out to her. I could imagine the speaker sobbing and lamenting Sylvia’s death.
It’s interesting that you question the causes of their suicides. Looking back, the presence of women have grown in society. Even today, you still see accounts of double standards and unequal rights between sexes. With this in mind, I wonder if these suicidal women were reserved to just poets and other artists, or if it was a bigger trend across society as a whole. I wonder if women were just too overlooked before this era. Perhaps the seemingly unconventional reforms made some women panic. Or maybe the suicides of women before the movement towards women’s rights were just ignored or considered insignificant.
Ashini, just expanding what you said about postmodernism- it also focuses very much on the unconventional, and deviating from normal standards. We can see the whimsicality and surrealism you mentioned before, but also a deep desire to be different. The first line of Plath’s poem is “But I would rather be horizontal,” which is a strong indication of that desire to be different, and, to be accepted. We can make the connection with that desire to Plath’s untimely death by her own hand. I almost saw Plath’s poem as a cry for help- she wants to have a “open conversation with the sky,” and she wants to be upon in all her unconventionality. She is not “useful” in a world that is so monotonous, and it seems like she desperately wants to not be part of that monotony.
I really liked both of these poems, especially Sexton’s. I’m not exactly sure what the characteristics of post-modernism are, but from previous studies, I can guess that it’s an era that is what we would call “modern”; I feel like these poems probably are more assertive than poems from past eras.
What I noticed in both of these poems is that these women are describing THEMSELVES, and only themselves. They are not describing any outside factors, but just themselves and how they view themselves in the world. I’m also thinking that this idea of reflecting on yourself and looking at yourself from an objective standpoint is part of postmodernism. I also liked the themes of both of these poems. “Her Kind” definitely deals with being sort of an outcast in society and being seen with a negative view. But towards the end, Sexton says, “A woman like that is not ashamed to die. I have been her kind”. To me, these last two sentences signifies that she doesn’t mind being the outlier in society. It’s almost as if she’s stating that she isn’t ashamed to be portrayed this way and thus, isn’t ashamed to “die”. “I am Vertical” also deals with being an outsider, to an extent. Plath says, “I am vertical…. I am not a tree with my roots in the soil…. I walk among them, but none of them are noticing”. She states that even though she is vertical, like the trees and plants, she doesn’t feel like them at all. This poem also deals with death, which I think is another topic of postmodernism. Plath states that she would rather be “horizontal” (or dead) because then she can contribute something to the trees and have conversations with the skies. The last few lines also portray how she thinks that she is useless in society, unless she is deceased. Both women use metaphors in their poems; Plath compares herself to the trees and the plants, whereas Sexton compares herself to a witch, being persecuted by her community. Both of these poems primarily talking about never quite being part of something– never quite being in place. You can also look at both from a feminist perspective since Sexton is talking about being a particular type of woman, and Plath mentions “motherly love”.
Lanette, excellent analysis! I like how you bring up ideas from a feminist perspective. Click on the link in the prompt titled “Post Modernism”. This will give you a brief overview of the time period. Consider why this time period follows Modernism…
I agree with the interpretation of the “horizontal” phrase, I thought I was the only one who thought that it meant she felt more useful dead. Also, It’s true how they use metaphors, I didn’t notice that at first. It makes sense because Plath is comparing herself to nature and sexton is comparing herself to different types of figures or people who society may look down on.
I like that you brought the idea of the speakers being outsiders. I didn’t exactly think of it like that (especially in Plath’s poem) when I read the two poems but I see it now. In Sexton’s poem, the speaker is a “witch” or at least compares herself to one because she is persecuted and not part of the community (i.e. living in a cave). In Plath’s poem, it’s like the speaker almost feels like an outsider from mother nature or an outsider from life itself, like she doesn’t belong living.
Further elaborating on Sexton’s personal view that she’s an outsider , I saw the last line “Then the trees may touch me for once, and the flowers have time for me” as Plath proclaiming that she’d lose her title as an outsider after death. In the middle of the second stanza, she says that she “perfectly resembles ” the flowers(others) when she is asleep; a common belief is that sleep can closely resemble the silence or world of death. With this, taking it a step further, when she closes the poem with the words “may touch me for once”, she signifies that she’ll finally feel normal when she actually passes, and “have time for me” signifies that in the afterlife, her thoughts may be perceived in a different light amongst the other passed souls. As she ties together her view of herself as an outsider, Plath concludes that she hopes for a more accepting world after death. A place where she’ll finally fit in with the others that in the real life she feels isolated towards.
That feeling of unconventionality, of knowing she’s different, or wanting to be different, is such a key component of Sylvia Plath’s poetry. Even though she turns to things like trees, that share similar characteristics to her in being “vertical,” she still feels different. Yes, it hints to her suicide, but as a whole, I think it is an accurate representation of the time period- the idea of escaping monotony, furthering yourself from the norm, redefining society, etc. The idea of future-orientation- that you could change things to be different- is also evident; Plath almost wants to fit in, but accepts that she doesn’t; she wants to be more accepted for her differences, and she can only find that in “conversations with the sky.”
A common theme I’ve noticed throughout these two poems is that both authors are writing about stages/a stage in their life in which they have felt insecure, and not whole. In Sylvia Plath’s “I am Vertical”, she writes that she is undeserving to be standing horizontal with the same trees and fruits of nature that she deems “immortal”. This shows me that she doesn’t see herself as a unique or deserving individual. However unrelated, this reminds me of how St. Peter asked his killers to turn the cross he was to be crucified on upside down, because he didn’t think he was worthy enough to be martyred the same was Jesus was. Anyway, in the first stanza of “Her Kind”, Sexton says “A woman like that is not a woman, quite.
I have been her kind.” signifying a lowly stage where she was not whole, or the woman she is today. Sexton’s poem definitely has a more inspirational undertone, as stages in her life are written in the past tense “I have been her kind”, giving the reader a feeling that the speaker has progressed. Whereas Plath’s is more accepting and even welcoming of death without even mentioning it. Lines such as, “It is more natural to me, lying down.
Then the sky and I are in open conversation,
And I shall be useful when I lie down finally:
Then the trees may touch me for once, and the flowers have time for me.”, hint to the reader that when she is dead and buried, she will be “horizontal” like she is meant to be, and be recognized by the trees and flowers that could possibly use her corpse for sustenance.
I am definitely intrigued by your analysis of the line “I have been her kind.” You are right, it seems like she has “progressed” my only issue is that she didn’t. Sexton was always different; she, unlike most, was accepting and welcoming of death. Sexton wanted to escape the limitations set by life, and she succeeded, but she had always wanted that. The articles indicate that Sexton and Plath kept each other going, and when Plath finally succumbed to death, Sexton did as well.
Bryanna, I think this is a great analysis, I just have one extension- I think Sexton is trying to say that she has “progressed” according to norms. I think, however, that she wants to progress outside of the norm, and as her own person. She “has been one of those kind,” but maybe she felt forced to be a “normal” kind, however normal was defined when she wrote the poem. She obviously had an opinion about how society viewed women, especially those who can think for themselves, (stop me if anything sounds familiar,) and she has accepted that she has changed, but maybe she regrets that change? I think that last bit is a stretch, but as a further extension- things don’t change all that much. Women who are different, smart, or anything like that, they are still considered unconventional. Sexton would probably be saying the same things in our modern-day society.
I really liked your interpretation of “I Am Vertical”! After you mentioned St. Peter, I went back to read the poem, and I can actually see how Plath can see the fact that she doesn’t see herself as unique. I feel like Sexton doesn’t see herself as very unique either, because she has been so many types of a “woman” who is looked down upon in society.
The first poem I pulled up was “Her Kind” and I initially saw a very positive message. I thought Sexton was trying to convey that it shouldn’t matter what anyone believes; it is alright not to conform to societal beliefs. When Sexton said, “A woman like that is not ashamed to die.
I have been her kind,” I thought she was addressing the fact she was proud of being an outcast because she was being true to herself.
Now I know that while she was accepting of her situation, she wasn’t willing to put up with it. She wanted more out of life, and that was death. My concern is that while death may have freed both Sexton and Plath it trapped their families. Children follow by example, and one could have read the line “It is more natural to me, lying down,” as giving up. Humans gravitate towards what is easier because it requires less work. It is natural for me to turn on the television when I don’t understand a concept for math; it doesn’t mean I should.
While I enjoyed the imagery and connotations used in Plath’s poem (taking the immortality of the tree and beauty of the flowers to express what death would be to her) and Sexton’s use of a mythical creature to separate herself from the pack, I do not appreciate how they took away from the value life. I am not saying that they were trying to implement their beliefs on the reader, but they were so young, and to wish for death at that age because you are different makes me worry. Sometimes I feel that people who believe life is what limits them aren’t trying hard enough; a lot can fixed with a positive mentality. (And I’m a realist!)
I guess I can see where you come from. Especially in a time when suicide and emotional disorders are becoming more and more prevalent, it is definitely important to consider the psychological effects these poems may have on readers, especially those that may be troubled or feeling the same emotions. However, personally I did not take away the idea that succumbing to death is easier than suffering through life. Rather I was moved by their emotions and their stark honesty. I think the reason why their poems resonate with so many people is that they were not afraid to talk about death and they talked honestly about the human fear of death, something many people are afraid to think about, let alone talk about it. While in these days, the poems may be interpreted in a different light, I do not think their suicidal thoughts take away from the overall emotional value and meaning of the poems.
I agree with you Audrey. It was brave of both Plath and Sexton to write out their true feelings about death. I think the ideas they present about being an outcast, living through hardships, and being uncomfortable with themselves make the poems all the more relatable, especially today. I also see where you’re coming from Alisha, but I feel as though these poems were not meant for the reader or any other audience. I feel like they were meant only for Sexton and only for Plath. They were not trying to get a message across to anyone, but merely writing to and for themselves, so if they de-valued life it wasn’t because that’s what they wanted readers to see, it was because that’s how they felt.
I see what you’re saying here about your worry of their wishing of death, but other factors should be taken into account. I don’t think their wishing for death came from being different. Mental illness probably took a huge role in their lives and altered many of their thoughts. Sometimes positive attitudes cannot fix some serious mental illnesses.
I can see everyone’s point. Plath and Sexton were probably not expecting a whole bunch of students to read their poems where they conveyed a lot of private thoughts. Also even though to people who go through hardships but maybe not to a certain extreme can’t understand how someone can see death as the answer. To people who aren’t in their shoes, its like their taking the easier way out but to them its the only way out. I also agree with Danielle, mental illness should also be taken into account.
I see your point.
Although I agree that both authors seem to be describing their feelings of not belonging and their philosophy regarding death, I don’t believe Plath and Sexton simply wanted to die because it was hard to cope. It is quite clear that both authors view themselves as abnormal women within society, and that their history of mental disorder contributes to their heightened feelings of sadness, but I don’t believe their respective feelings of isolation were the factors as to why they seemed so engaged in death or eager to pull an end-all. When Sexton says “where your flames still bite my thigh, and my ribs crack where your wheels wind.”, she suggests that forms of social interaction are tortuous for her, what gets others going, pains her. When Plath says “I am not a tree with a root in the soil, Sucking up minerals and motherly love”, she states that the regular things that woman do are distant from how she acts, that she does not stand up right (normal) like the “trees” (others), and this affects her so much that she wants to be put to rest. The similarity that both women see themselves as unconventional to the point that they consider death is definitely apparent, but confounding similarity I found between the two poems, and as well as between the authors is that Plath and Sexton viewed their deaths in a mutual, yet unique way, in which the idea that death would make them even freer, even more insightful, than anything. Plath and Sexton both come to the realization that they both had this faith in death in which they could not find in life.
I really liked your point on how both Plath and Sexton believed that they would have a better chance in death than they would in life. I never thought of that; I always thought that Plath and Sexton had given up in life and just wanted to die. It was nice to see from a new perspective that maybe both poets believed they would finally find happiness in death.
I agree with the positive vibes that radiates off of “I Have Been Her Kind”. Perhaps it could have been a message for others to accept the stages in their life and move on from that. However I think the ending leaves an open door for how a reader could interpret it, either negatively or positively.
In both Sexton’s poem and Plath’s poem, the speaker is focused on themself. Instead of looking at themselves in a positive light, both speakers seem to point out the flaws in themselves. In “Her Kind,” the speaker describes herself as, “a possessed witch,” and “dreaming evil.” In “I am Vertical,” Plath writes, “Nor am I the beauty of a garden bed,” and “Unknowing I must soon unpetal.” These quotes make the speaker seem unwanted and undesirable. Sexton’s poem may have caused some controversy because of its harsh tone, which is one of the factors used in Postmodernism. Because these poems point out flaws in the speaker, the tone seems brutally honest. These poems also can relate to the difficulties that women face in the world and the way they are looked at. I noticed that at the end of both poems, death is brought up. In “Her Kind,” she says, “A woman like that is not ashamed to die.”. In “I am Vertical” she says, “And I shall be useful when I lie down finally,”. Sexton uses death in an almost prideful way as if saying a woman like that is not afraid to fight til the death. Plath uses death in a more depressing way as if saying that the only way she’ll be of help is if she dies.
I like your comment about how in both poems the speakers are pointing out flaws in themselves. I actually did not see it that way. The way I saw it was that this how society viewed different types of women in “Her Kind”. In “I am Vertical” I saw it as the result of society out casting women.
I think its interesting that you saw the poems as a way to show pride in fighting till death. I didn’t look at it that way. I agree because though both poems talk about death, they give off a sense of strength and pride, not sadness and weakness.
After hearing about Sylvia Plath’s troubled lifestyle in class, I was interested in learning how her poetry reflected her emotional distress and the time period it was written in. In her poem, “I am Vertical,” it is clear that Plath’s depression and suicidal thoughts throughout her life were deep influences on her writing. In the poem she describes how she is alive (vertical) like the tree and plants she sees but feels as if it would be “more natural to me [her], lying down” (horizontal). Through her use of metaphor, she alludes to the isolation and uselessness she feels in life and the joy she will feel when she escapes it through death. Similar themes of isolation and death can be seen in Anne Sexton’s poem, “Her Kind.” In this poem, Sexton compares herself to a witch and explains that she understands what it feels like to a woman that is on the outside and persecuted for her abnormal beliefs. She also hints at death when she states: “A woman like that is not ashamed to die. / I have been her kind” in the last stanza of the poem. Comparing the two poems, I noticed that both authors focused on their own emotions. In a way they both seemed to be admitting their feelings of not belonging to society and confessing their desire to escape life through death. In addition, they both use nature as a setting for their poems and to illustrate their desire to escape into something that will feel more natural for them. For Sexton, she feels more natural in the woods where she can fix “the suppers for the worms and the elves: / whining, rearranging the disaligned,” because it is an escape from the village and the judgmental society it represents. For Plath, she is vertical like the trees and flowers but feels isolated because she cannot feel their need for life like they do. Instead she wishes she could lie down and be horizontal so that “the sky and I are in open conversation.” She feels that once she is dead and buried in the earth, the vertical trees and flowers may finally have use for her, “sucking up minerals and motherly love.” Finally, as what I know of Postmodernism, literature of this time often featured a dehumanized and lost central character. Both Sexton and Plath take on this role as they describe their feelings of being lost in a society they don’t belong in and dehumanized mentality of wanting to find happiness through death.
I was also interested in reading Plath and Sexton’s poems after learning that they both committed suicide. Their depression is clearly displayed in their writing. Plath talked about how she would be more useful after she dies and Sexton talks about how she would not be ashamed to die. Both women seem to think that death is their best choice and seem to have lost all faith in finding happiness in the world.
I was actually reminded a bit of Transcendentalism after reading your response. I like how both Plath and Sexton utilize nature in their poems, just like Thoreou and Emerson! Is the description of nature a characteristic of the postmodernism time period? I would think so, just because this is the period where everyone is getting technologically advanced and they would want to reminisce about the “simpler life”.
In Anne Sexton’s poem and in Sylvia Plath’s poem I notice that they are both defining themselves, only themselves, in a negative way. They also seem to have morose elements in their works, and a mentioning of death. In Anne Sexton’s poem “Her Kind” she definitely deals with being sort of an outcast in society and is seen in a negative view by those around her. Even if she is kind to them they have negative feeling towards her. Although she is outcasted from her society it seems as if it doesnt bother her and that she accepts it. She doesnt feel like she needs to be ashamed of herself and is not ashamed of how she is characterized by her peers. These elements also carry over to Slyvia Path’s poem “I Am Verticle”, she states that even tough she may be like the other women, she is not treated like one. As if she were the person who is normal but treated badly by them. She considers herself useless to the society and feels that her death wouldbe more significant than anything else she could do. Elements I feel that are common in these poems (Postmodernism) are nature, death, and outcast(also personal reflection).
That’s an interesting point about how in Plath’s poem the speaker may be like other women but isn’t treated like one. Maybe the beauty and awe she sees in nature is actually what she sees in other women or even just other people and she doesn’t think she has that, so she is treated differently?
But then I think of the line “Compared with me a tree is immortal” and it reminds me of that quote “If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life thinking its stupid.” I feel like this is what could’ve happened to the speaker of Plath’s poem.
Erin, I think Plath may actually be referring to how women are treated as a whole. Even in today’s society, women are treated differently than men, just in different ways from Plath’s time. We could look at the poem being more specific to Plath’s life and how she looks at other women, but I think we could also take it more broadly. Plath may even be suggesting that a woman, or even specifically the speaker herself, is better off with “thoughts gone dim.” Maybe she is suggesting that a woman, or really anyone that thinks differently, would be better off suppressing their thoughts, and death is a way to do that.
The speakers of both poems hold some sort of bitterness towards their lives or at least view themselves in a negative light. In Sexton’s poem, the speaker is remembering her past and all of the “kinds” of women she was. She was a witch, a cave-dwelling recluse, and a victim of mistreatment and it seems that these identities came about partly because she was a woman (the repetition of the second to last line in each stanza). The speaker does seem less bitter and more confident/proud of her womanhood at the end of the poem when she is “not ashamed to die”.
In Plath’s poem her depression/bitterness/unhappiness is evident in her word choice. It’s paradoxical how she describes such beautiful things like the immortal tree or the painted garden bed to portray her unhappiness. The speaker of Plath’s poem talks about death too (lying down finally/being horizontal), but with less conviction/definiteness than the speaker of Sexton’s poem. It’s more like she wants to die rather than she is okay with dying.
In both poems Plath and Sexton shine a sliver of light on the disconnect they felt with life. In “I Am Verticle” Plath speaks very low of herself, almost as if she has given up on feeling the strength she assumes so many people possess. Lines such as “compared with me a tree is immortal” and “it is more natural lying down” point to a feeling of hopelessness. Plath’s poem presents to me the image of a soldier coming home from war, weary and wounded. After struggling for so many years Plath appears complacent, and almost comfortable, living in the fog that blinds her so. It has, after all, been her longest companion.
Sexton’s poem takes on a more rebellious tone. I can almost feel her taking pride in her deviant ways. However, as the poem progresses the tone becomes increasingly more solemn. With each stanza Sexton reminds herself of how her anomalous ways have affected her life, and by proxy, her happiness.
I agree with Gabby, Sexton’s poem does take on a more rebellious tone. Even though people judge her for being a women, she doesn’t let it get her done. Instead she embraces it by saying “I am her kind” and takes pride in her ways.
I can see where you’re coming from with the more rebellious tone. I especially hear that in the second to last line of every stanza. However, when she closes each stanza with the same line, “I have been her kind”, I am thrown for a loop. At this point, she is speaking in the past tense. In my mind, she is running through her unconventional past and recognizing the woman she might have resembled. Once she dismisses these “women” as a thing of her past, however, it sounds as if she has accepted defeat. You reference her taking pride in her deviant ways, but I see her remembering this pride in her past, and then dismissing it as she moves on in sadness.
When I first read Anne Sexton’s “Her Kind,” I thought she was trying to portray herself in a negative, almost sexist way. I realized, however, looking at it more deeply, that she may be criticizing the society around her. Postmodernism is often characterized by skepticism for existing culture and norms, and is essentially unconventional. The “kind” Sexton refers to is just that- unconventional. When Sexton characterizes herself as “out of mind,” I looked at it from that perspective- that perhaps the way she thought, or acted, especially as a woman, may have been unconventional during her time. She wants her readers to know that her life has not been conventional, and that may in part be because she is a woman; as a woman, she likely had some pre-set standards as to how she should act and think, and she deviated from those standards, which in turn compels her to call herself a “witch.” She is with the “kind” of unconventional folk, and that is where she seems to be comfortable.
I agree that Sexton may be channeling her negativity to a society that seems so suffocating and not just toward herself. Her feelings of being an outsider may stem from living in a world that is not ready to accept such a women.
I agree with you Farwa, that Sexton was portraying herself negatively, When I read “A woman like that is not ashamed to die” , in Sexton’s poem I saw it as her showing that she feels useless in her society and her death will make no difference.
The two big similarities I see with these poems are in the content and themes. Since both Sexton and Plath suffered from mental illnesses, their thoughts of suicide and comfort in death often bled through into their writing. In “Her Kind”, Sexton addresses this with the second to last line, “A woman like that is not ashamed to die.” While she might not be talking about herself in this poem here, it is not difficult to see the connection with the three women in this poem and her. In “I am Vertical” Plath addresses her comfort in death and her view on death in the last four lines. She describes how she feels that she would be more useful to the world if she died and was decomposed. Another similarity between the two poems is in some of the themes. What I took away from “Her Kind” is that women are misunderstood and out casted by society. Each stanza was a description of a woman and how they are looked on and out casted in society. In “I am Vertical”, Plath it describes a woman who feels useless because she does not possess the qualities of trees and flowers. The qualities are beauty and longevity of life. Both talk about the struggles of woman in society. In terms of literary devices, both of them utilize metaphors. The metaphors are the things that really caught my attention. In “Her Kind”, in the first stanza the speaker is compared to a witch and in “I am Vertical”, she compares the qualities that she wants to see in herself to the qualities of a tree and flowers. A tree lives a long and durable life and flowers have beauty. These two poems just instantly remind me of postmodernism due to the self-conscious style in “Her Kind” and the idea of meaninglessness in “I am Vertical”.
“Bled through into their writing”…? Really? Anyways, I agree that the metaphors were cool and what you thought the meaning of them were. Flowers represented Plath not feeling as beautiful as other women, and the witch represented the Sexton not being the sweet and cute girl all of these other women are.
I really like the connection that you pointed out between the line “A woman like that is not ashamed to die”, and the fact that it shows her comfort with dying and suicide. As you said the theme of comfort and death is apparent in Plath’s poem as well as Sexton. Even in the first line of Plath’s poem she says “But I would rather be horizontal”, this could even be seen as her desire to be laying down dead. Also Sexton states “I have ridden in your cart, driver” which could be another way of saying I have already dealt with life, and that she has died.
Some of the big themes and ideas in postmodernism were a sense of introspection and drawing poetry from one’s own life. In Anne Sexton’s “Her Kind” the speaker is aliening her self to unabashed, “misunderstood” women as well as criticizing society for out casting them. In Sylvia Plath’s “I am Vertical” the narrator discuses being more useful and noticed when horizontal- or in other words dead. Both Sexton and Plath write of emotion with in their own worlds. Structurally “Her Kind” has three stanzas with an odd number of lines (which was something I found very interesting.) While “I am Vertical” has two ten line stanzas. n Anne Sexton’s “Sylvia’s Death” the speaker goes on to morn the lose of her friend Sylvia. However with a slight tone of jealousy, as sexton all so wanted to meet death. Many of Plath’s poem openly narrate her turbulent life and emotions. “My tears like vinegar”(2) in “Jilted”. Both women, presumably friends seemed to be in the same space mentally.The title of the Poetry Dispatch article “The Art & The Artists of Self Destruction”, shocked me in how well it fit. There were no better words in describing their poetry.
I was surprised when I read the poem, “Sylvia’s Death.” Sexton talked about how they often discussed about death when they were together. I agree with you that Sexton sounded a little jealous about the fact that Plath was dead while she was still alive in this world.
I disagree with you that Sexton is jealous of Plath’s death, instead I think she is sad. Being suicidal and talking about death was something that they had and common and could bond over because they had similar feelings about their futures on Earth. In “Sylvia’s Death” Sexton says how they outgrew the suicidal feelings and they talked about analysts and cures for their feelings. I think Sexton is sad that after all they had said and how far they had come Plath still took the plunge. I don’t think Sexton is wants to be dead but rather wants to not be without Plath whether it be in life or the afterlife.
A characteristic of postmodernism that both poems share is introspection. Instrospection, or the process of looking inward for answers from one’s own thoughts or feelings, becomes relevant during the postmodernism time period in part due to the rise of psychoanalysis. Pioneered by Sigmund Frued, this new school of thought encouraged people to access their inner self. As seen in both poems, Sexton and Plath dedicate every stanza to speaking on how they themselves. Postmodernism, occurring during a time when the cohesiveness of America was dusintugrating, gave way to the individual. As evident in both poems, people started to focus on themselves and their place in the world. For Sexton and Plath this focus was on how they felt did not have a place in the world.
Despite the correlation between postmodernism poets, perhaps even poets in general, and mental illness I think it’s important to remember that not all prolific poets during that time period had a mental illness and not everybody with a mental illness is capable of creating such timeless works of writing like Plath and Sexton were.
In both poems the poet seems to take on a judgmental tone as if they’re judging themselves. In Sylivia Plath’s poem “I Am Vertical” she talks about how she wished she was a tree or one with nature because she feels as if she doesn’t have a purpose like a tree does. In the poem she says, “I am not a tree with my root in the soil/ Sucking up minerals and motherly love/ So that each March I may gleam into leaf” (line 2-4). Plath believes that a tree has purpose, they consume nutrients so that they could ‘give birth’ to leaves. Throughout the poem she compares herself to nature and how it has a purpose unlike her and in conclusion she realizes she would rather be dead or one with the earth instead of alive. The poem “Her Kind” by Anne Sexton also follows this theme. Sexton also judges herself and the life that she lives. She relates herself to a witch because of how different she is or this grouping of women are different saying, “I am her kind” (line 7). Saxon continues to talk about how she’s lived through all these different types of phrases as a women and how she has been judged for it. Sylvia Plath’s and Anne Saxton’s poems both talk about the judgement of women. Plath judges herself for having an exact purpose in life and Saxton feels judged for being a women. From reading both of these poems, i can infer that during this era it was very difficult being a woman because women were judged internally and externally.
In her poem, “Her Kind,” Anne Sexton writes about herself in a very negative light. The narrator describes herself as a witch and states that she has ” been her kind.” Throughout the poem the narrator speaks of herself condescendingly before finally ending by stating, “A woman like that is not ashamed to die.” By saying that a woman, who is viewed as a witch, is not ashamed to die, Sexton reflects the harsh perspectives of society when it comes to judging women. It is made clear in the last stanza that society has shamed her so much that she only felt dignity in death. In “I am Vertical,” Sylvia Plath illustrates her persona in a very pitiful light. The narrator begins explaining how even though she stands tall and proud, she is ignored in society. She believes that society only notices her when she is pretty and has no thoughts. Both poems describe society’s odd views of women. Moreover, both poets emphasize the fact that women as sometimes viewed as less than human( as a witch in “Her Kind”).
There is no doubt that the restrictions society placed on women influenced postmodern poets such as Ann and Sexton. I cannot help but wonder how their writing and ideas would change if they lived today.
Considering that unconventional women are still shunned in today’s society, I don’t think their ideas would change. Also, you have to remember that these women were both deeply depressed for most of their lives, which is a very personal thing, not societal. This was just a small part of the many things that made up their depression. In my opinion, their writing wouldn’t have been any different.
I really liked your point on how both Sexton and Plath wrote about themselves in a very negative light. Sexton called herself a witch in her poem and said she would not be ashamed to die. Also, Plath wrote about how useless she was. She talked about how great the trees and flowers were while she looked down upon herself. Society had very harsh opinions about how women should be like which both women incorporated into their writing.
The parallels between the “Her Kind” and “I am Vertical” are not lost to us. They both are speaking about how society is sexist, and how that perspective of society has harmed themselves personally.
I do feel that while the two corresponding, sexism of the world was a common topic. Looking at “Sylvia’s Death”, it’s obvious that Plath and Sexton had a lot to talk about. They acknowledge the darkest part of themselves, and that’s what I like about Postmodernism. It’s brutal and honest and great.
When I read “I am Vertical”, I could not describe her Plath’s persona but after reading your post just now, I do see it as ” a very pitiful light”. I also agree that Sexton’s reflection of society is harsh when it comes to women being judged.
Both these poems were interesting to read. They were alike in terms of their subject however the writers seem, atleast to me, reflect a different outlook in each. Both poems were self descriptions written by the poet. While Sylvia Plath seems to speak very negatively about herself (“Nor am I the beauty of a garden bed”), Sexton seems to embrace how she is an anomaly in society. However, these writers suffered from mental disorders and it can be seen in their writing when they seem to imply suicide. For example, in Sylvia Plath’s “I am Vertical”, she seems to stress this idea when she says, “It is more natural to me, lying down”. Anne Sexton also expresses her thoughts on death when she says “A woman like that is not ashamed to die”. Throughout their respective poems, both focus on how women are seen differently in society. Sylvia highlights how beauty is often the most important feature in relation to women while Anne speaks of women that go against the typical role set out for them. In her (Anne’s) poem, she describes herself, the anomaly, as a witch perhaps to indicate how society may view women like her.
I agree that both Sexton and Plath hinted at suicide in their poems. When Plath talked about how she wanted to be horizontal, she implied that she wanted to die. Furthermore, she stated, “And I shall be useful when I lie down finally.” Sexton hints at suicide in her poem when she states, “A woman like that is not ashamed to die.”
The poem, “I am Vertical,” by Sylvia Plath and “Her Kind,” by Anne Sexton were similar in many ways. Many characteristics of the postmodernism period was seen in their writing. Both poets focused on themselves and talked about the emptiness and sadness of life. In the poem, “I am Vertical,” the speaker talks about how she wants to be useful like the trees and beautiful like the flowers. However, she states that she would be more useful after she dies. This poem reflects how lost and depressed Sylvia Plath was. In the poem, “Her Kind,” Anne Sexton talks about how she is different from everyone else. She stands out in society and compares herself to a witch. She ends the poem with the eerie remark that, “A woman like that is not ashamed to die.” Sexton touches on the fact that she would not mind death as she does not belong in this world. Both Sylvia Plath and Anne Sexton uses imagery in their poem to give readers a clear image. In the poem, “I am Vertical,” Plath uses the phrase,”Tonight, in the infinitesimal light of the stars, the trees and flowers have been strewing their cool odors.” This line uses descriptive words to show how much Plath admired the trees and flowers. In the poem, “Her Kind,” Sexton states,”I have gone out, a possessed witch, haunting the black air, braver at night.” This line clearly shows how much of an outcast Sexton was in society.
Both the poems have a negative tone to them in which both poets suggest that they would be better off dead. In Anne Sexton’s, “Her Kind”, she touches upon a few feminine stereotypes in each stanza such as a witch, a wife/mother, and a madwoman. A witch is considered a very hideous creature and in her poem, she relates that to how she doesn’t fit in society’s views of a perfect woman. In the second stanza, she describes how a mother/wife does many chores like “fixed suppers” and ” rearranging the disaligned” but is often “misunderstood” because she is busy doing other things and her true self tends to get lost in all the chaos. In the last stanza, she is saying that she is also a madwoman and she says how a woman like that should be ashamed to die, just like how she committed suicide. In Sylvia Plath’s, “I am vertical”, she uses beautiful imagery to convey her depression. She also uses personification when she says she walks among the flowers and “none of them are noticing”. Plath uses trees and flowers to symbolize the lifespan and what she doesn’t have. She pretty much says that she will be just as beautiful as the flowers only when she “lie down finally” or dead. I saw that both poets committed suicide and that idea of death can be seen through their poems. They are very interesting poems because they both describe a woman’s point of view in regards to society.
The main idea and similarity between Plath and Sexton’s poems is that they are explaining themselves being unconventional women. Plath and Sexton weren’t women that you would find on a magazine cover or on your television screen. I don’t think that these poems were a condemntion of society, but just a reflection of themselves and how they felt about the type of women they were. Societal pressures on women definitely play a role in it though.
I really like “Her Kind” (a lot more than I am Vertical) because I feel like many women–including myself–can relate to the sadness and hardships of not being the conventional woman. It doesn’t affect everyone to the point of wanting to kill themselves, but it definitely can be hard to deal with.
Just as everyone has said before, I could list the similarities in content between the two poets/poems such as gender roles, depression, suicide, loneliness, etc. However, what jumped out to me most was both of the poets’ use of metaphors.
In Sylvia Plath’s “I Am Vertical”, she rarely uses the word “I” to actually describe herself. Rather, she juxtaposes her being with her surroundings, whether it be a tree, a garden, or the stars. Then, she uses this environment to express her qualities and emotions. For example, she never blatantly describes her sadness and suicidal tendencies. Instead, she compares her life to that of a tree or a garden to emphasize her shortcomings.
Similarly, in Anne Sexton’s “Her Kind”, the speaker describes her sort of “past lives”. Although she uses first person pronouns, the speaker creates the effect that the woman she describes in her poem is not the woman she is now, almost separating her into 4 different characters. With this in mind, Sexton conveys her emotions indirectly through these 3 other characters (those that are not herself) and creates a surreal effect as a result.
Reading each poem more and more, I begin to question the reasoning behind this use of metaphors/indirect descriptions. It’s almost as if the authors are attempting to avoid speaking about themselves or they want to leave the reader with a sense of ambiguity and surrealism.
As well as their unifying theme of death and negativity, both these poems exemplify postmodernism characteristics perfectly. Both poems are entirely focused on the speaker’s themselves, which shows the characteristic of introspection. They analyze their own feelings and consciousness and tell their view on life. Sexton and Plath both use personal pronouns throughout the poem to emphasize the focus on themselves. Also, the prominence of the theme of death is prevalent in both poems. I felt that Sexton’s poem was more straightforward and obvious regarding her comfort with death. But, Plath’s poem was also very negative but it used more figurative language. Though they were comfortable with death, it is interesting that both authors were actually suicidal so it is expected that the poems end up hinting suicide. For instance, in Plath’s poem she says “But I would rather be horizontal”, which could signify lying down in a casket or preparing for death. She also compares herself to various natural elements and continues to emphasize she would rather die. Similarly in Sexton’s poem she goes as far as referring to herself as a witch and that she is a woman who is not afraid to die. Her poem is straightforward and she clearly conveys her pride in death and how different she is. The poems take an interesting turn from the basic stereotypes of females and their need to conform. Instead, both these women are openly discussing their desire for death.
The first thing I noticed when reading the two poems is the use of the word “I”. What I found so interesting is that In interpretation of the “I” in both poems, it did not just mean Plath and Sexton but the plight of women in general. Both women seem to be postmodernism feminists. In there poems there describing the struggles and journey of women in there time period. Another thing I immediately noticed is both poems were full of imagery and analogy. Anne sexton was not truly identifying herself as a witch on a broom stick who hides in caves. Her imagery and metaphor was used to further the idea that she was a cast out, “possessed”, and ridiculed person. She’s identifying with being someone that isn’t accepted. Sylvia Plath as well is not literally comparing her life to trees, her use of imagery is furthering her message of not fitting in with the others, and wanting to be dead then continue like this. Both poems also seem to have a negative tone, but not naïve. There painting the picture straight forward, not naïve and hopeful or hiding there feelings. They see there lives at a negative place and there expressing it openly. Both authors also alluded to death. Plath directly alludes to the fact that she would rather die or become apart of the earth then continue on in the way things are, where as Sexton describes her kind as ” a women that is not afraid to die”. It seems to me that both of these women are hopeless. Though Plath seems more openly suicidal, Sexton is not to far from it either. Both women could have chosen to write poems about how change is coming but they didn’t. They seem beaten and worn out.
After reading both “Her Kind” and “I am Vertical”, I have discovered numerous similarities between the two. When it comes to theme, both of the poems show how a woman is or wants to be something that is not “normal” for a human female to desire to be. Both poems show some sort of mental illness whether it be depression or simply madness. In regards to the structure, Sexton and Plath use a combination of simple sentences as well as complex sentences to show the reader the mental state of the speaker. The constant switch between the two types shows how the speakers go from being “sane” and having well put together thoughts to being “crazy” and dwelling on certain aspects of their life.
*** I posted this 2 times already so if this appears 2 times then sorry”
In the poems, “Her Kind” by Anne Sexton and “I am Vertical” by Sylvia Plath both poets exemplify how people view themselves in the world and the difficulties. Both poets use metaphor in their writing such as in, “Her Kind”, the poet compares herself to a witch while in “I am Vertical”, poet Sylvia Plath compares herself to trees and plants. Both the poems portray that women are judged to an extent where they are viewed less than what they are. However, in Sexton’s poem, she does not view being an outsider in a negative way while Plath views herself negatively. At the end of the poem of “Her Kind”, Sexton says that “A woman like that is not ashamed to die” to represent what she conveyed in the poem of being unimportant unless she is dead. Plath on the other hand accepts death when she says, “It is more natural to me, lying down” and when she says, “Compared with me, a tree is immortal”. Both poems portrays Postmodernism as unconventional as both poets take on death. After reading both poems, I really liked “I am Vertical” by Sylvia Plath because she did not view herself as negatively as Sexton did and I also liked Plath’s use of imagery.